http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.books?hl=en
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Today's topics:
* Do You Believe in Free Willie? A Note for the King of Texas - 3 messages, 2
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.books/t/0f3e0fb9b893335c?hl=en
* ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ FISHING GAME ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.books/t/bf9aab21b373ba8a?hl=en
* I just shot my Grandma - no really! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.books/t/568781cf63ec0f51?hl=en
* "Pirate Latitudes" - Michael Crichton's last blockbuster? - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.books/t/94dd7e899609d8da?hl=en
* "In Cold Blood" - the Clutter murders, 50 years later - 4 messages, 3
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.books/t/bf772fd1e7a9a6aa?hl=en
* The Books That Founded D&D - 9 messages, 7 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.books/t/8ba57c69243a3499?hl=en
* The Seven Basic Plots - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.books/t/cbb217ac2d077860?hl=en
* Jalousie: A Thing of Purest Magnificence - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.books/t/af0c465e4afc566a?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Do You Believe in Free Willie? A Note for the King of Texas
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.books/t/0f3e0fb9b893335c?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 19 2009 11:07 pm
From: Stratum101
On Nov 19, 10:06 pm, ne...@millions.com wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 19:41:53 -0800 (PST), Stratum101
>
>
>
>
>
> <j.coll...@cross-comp.com> wrote:
> >On Nov 19, 8:44 pm, Hal Womack 3-dan <hal.wom...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Ah, come to find out:
>
> >> {Results 1 - 10 of about 724,000 for "free willy". (0.30 seconds)}
> >> from Google Web search.
>
> >Of which 723,999 deal with the children's film, give
> >or take. Where do you fit in?
>
> >"Hal Womack" produces 10,900 results mostly
> >having to do with the well known kook whose
> >career as Muni bus driver ended after he
> >pursued and shot a disagreeable passenger.
> >Woo, woo.
>
> >Yeah, I know. Bernard Baruch
> >instructed your fellow Catholic
> >Carl Weiss to shoot Huey Long. A
> >post mortem on Weiss showed he had
> >a tiny radio implanted in his brain and
> >witnesses reported Baruch had been
> >seen with a microphone repeating,
> >"Shoot Huey."
>
> Shoot Huey? Wrong! That was a calll from a local farmer caliing home
> the pigs.
>
That was "Hoot suey!".
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 20 2009 1:55 am
From: rmjon23
Sometimes I very eagerly look forward to arriving home from work, so I
can free willy.
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 20 2009 6:33 am
From: Stratum101
On Nov 20, 3:55 am, rmjon23 <rmjo...@aol.com> wrote:
> Sometimes I very eagerly look forward to arriving home from work, so I
> can free willy.
So to speak, heh, heh.
I don't think Womack has ever had a significant other
with whom he could free his little William. I could
be wrong, and I wouldn't *mind* being wrong. But
in a society that values adult autonomy above
nearly all other social values to the point that
involunatary institutional care is no longer an
option, he's what you occasionally get.
Were we better off before they turned
the nutcases loose? Were the nutcases
better off? Boy, the jury's out on that one.
There are more of his kind on the coasts,
the West coast in particular. Until
a few years ago, I'd just assumed L.A.
was like the rest of the nation. (There
are more of him on the streets in L.A.
than in San Francisco by a long shot.)
It's not that I didn't know royal
palms don't line the streets of Emporia,
Kansas. But so much of L.A. was
derived from Chicago, and Chicago
is populated by who else?, people
of its Midwest hinterland naturally.
You would sort of think therefore
that Angelenos are "just folks" like
people who live in Des Moines. But
it turns out that the only Demoinians,
(or whatever the fuck they're called),
who migrate to L.A. were crazies
at home.
I make an exception for Long Beach
which is not called "Des Moines
by the Sea" for nothing, a term
which is not met as a compliment
to either Long Beach or to Des Moines!
And Long Beach isn't where you find your
Womack. He's on Hollywood Blvd
and anywhere along the entire length
of Santa Monica Blvd. He's on Pico.
Barrington. Venice Blvd. He's your next
door neighbor in Mar Vista who hears your ham
antenna rotating in the night and thinks you're
exposing the neighborhood to risk by
talking with Martians. In the morning,
you reassure your curious neighbor
that the Solar System Federation has
banned domestic mischief by members in
other members' states. It's easy for you
to do and it's so important to her peace
of mind.
Womack is a Westside guy in spirit
for sure. I'm a Westside guy and
I know the 'hood.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ FISHING GAME ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.books/t/bf9aab21b373ba8a?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 20 2009 12:22 am
From: gameplanner2009
Rock with the guitar
Guys, I am eagerly waiting to enter into the world of rocking
adventure with Roadie. My friend, a game freak, says it is the one of
its kind ever to be introduced. He says, with every note of the
guitar, you encounter an enemy robot; leave aside the electrified
setting!
For Image view of this new game please visit :
http://www.flickr.com/photos/44757851@N04/4113638513
On Nov 3, 10:31 pm, Jarrett Deleon <deleonwlojarrett...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> .
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: I just shot my Grandma - no really!
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.books/t/568781cf63ec0f51?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 20 2009 2:08 am
From: Brian Kavanagh
Bang! Now that I've got your attention I will tell you for the
last time, my FREE Christmas Giveaway this year is a FREE
paperback copy of BLOODY HAM and a FREE eBook PDF
copy of CAPABLE OF MURDER. Please specify which one
you would prefer.
Sign in to my Guest Book on my Website with your details for
your chance to win a FREE book or FREE eBook.
http://beekayvic.tripod.com
ONLY THREE DAYS LEFT before entries close midnight
Sunday 22nd November so hurry.
Got to go now as someone - I think the cops - is knocking at
the door and Granny won't last long in this heatwave.
PS: Did I mention the books are FREE?
==============================================================================
TOPIC: "Pirate Latitudes" - Michael Crichton's last blockbuster?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.books/t/94dd7e899609d8da?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 20 2009 7:15 am
From: abr
(Wall Street Journal) - When Michael Crichton died suddenly
of cancer last year, his publisher and agent had no idea
that he'd finished another novel, an old-fashioned
adventure tale about pirates in 17th-century Jamaica.
"Pirate Latitudes," due out Tuesday (Amazon.com:
http://tr.im/Latitudes ), seems at first like a major shift
for Mr. Crichton, best known for his science and technology-
themed novels such as "Jurassic Park" and "Sphere." It
features a rakish but honor-bound privateer named Charles
Hunter who sets out to raid a treasure-laden Spanish
galleon (and who, like his creator, attended Harvard). Mr.
Crichton's publisher is pitching the book as a throwback to
the author's 1975 historical romp "The Great Train
Robbery."...
Continued: http://tr.im/Pirate1
==============================================================================
TOPIC: "In Cold Blood" - the Clutter murders, 50 years later
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.books/t/bf772fd1e7a9a6aa?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 20 2009 8:32 am
From: kathypig
Capote only wrote short stories after "ICB" came out. I think the
years he spent on the book and all the emotional strains of that,
combined with the drinking, made him unable to write novels anymore.
kathy c
== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 20 2009 8:39 am
From: Kathy
kathypig wrote:
> Capote only wrote short stories after "ICB" came out. I think the
> years he spent on the book and all the emotional strains of that,
> combined with the drinking, made him unable to write novels anymore.
> kathy c
I absolutely agree. I believe that the ICB experience is what did him in.
Kathy
== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 20 2009 9:54 am
From: "Kris Baker"
"Kathy" <kb222@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:7mnv16F3iiklkU1@mid.individual.net...
> kathypig wrote:
>> Capote only wrote short stories after "ICB" came out. I think the
>> years he spent on the book and all the emotional strains of that,
>> combined with the drinking, made him unable to write novels anymore.
>> kathy c
>
> I absolutely agree. I believe that the ICB experience is what did him in.
>
> Kathy
I think it was the fame, the high society, and the wanting to be
accepted. It worked, for a little while.
Kris
== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 20 2009 1:02 pm
From: Kathy
Kris Baker wrote:
>
> "Kathy" <kb222@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:7mnv16F3iiklkU1@mid.individual.net...
>> kathypig wrote:
>>> Capote only wrote short stories after "ICB" came out. I think the
>>> years he spent on the book and all the emotional strains of that,
>>> combined with the drinking, made him unable to write novels anymore.
>>> kathy c
>>
>> I absolutely agree. I believe that the ICB experience is what did him
>> in.
>>
>> Kathy
>
> I think it was the fame, the high society, and the wanting to be
> accepted. It worked, for a little while.
>
> Kris
But he WAS accepted with open arms by high society and pretty much
everyone else. Though he always drank, his downward spiral began when he
got involved with the Clutter murders and the perpetrators. It consumed
his life, drained him mentally and physically and he just went downhill
after that.
Kathy
==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Books That Founded D&D
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.books/t/8ba57c69243a3499?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 20 2009 8:47 am
From: Dan Clore
http://tinyurl.com/y9gf2naD
The Books That Founded D&D
by James Maliszewski
Although it's commonplace nowadays to assume that J.R.R. Tolkien's The
Lord of the Rings was the primary source of inspiration for Dave Arneson
and Gary Gygax when they created the world's first tabletop roleplaying
game, Dungeons & Dragons, a careful examination of the game suggests
otherwise. There's no question that Tolkien's work did influence D&D.
The earliest editions of the game included explicit references to
Hobbits, Ents, Balrogs, and Nazgûl, for example - at least until the
Tolkien estate threatened legal action, a fact that probably encouraged
Gygax to downplay the influence of the Oxford don in later years.
Still, it's interesting that the game's original foreword, which Gygax
penned in November 1973, long before any legal concerns entered into the
picture, states: "These rules are strictly fantasy. Those wargamers who
lack imagination, those who don't care for Burroughs' Martian adventures
where John Carter is groping through black pits, who feel no thrill upon
reading Howard's Conan saga, who do not enjoy the de Camp & Pratt
fantasies or Fritz Leiber's Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser pitting their
swords against evil sorceries will not be likely to find DUNGEONS and
DRAGONS to their taste." There's no mention of Tolkien there and indeed,
even with the aforementioned references to Hobbits and Balrogs and the
like, there are probably even more references to the Martian creations
of Edgar Rice Burroughs in the text of the game itself.
So, if The Lord of the Rings wasn't as influential in the creation of
D&D as some would have it, then what were the most significant literary
inspirations for the founding game of the hobby of roleplaying? Let's
first take a look at the ones Gary Gygax specifically mentions in his
foreword.
Edgar Rice Burroughs
Although perhaps best known for creating Tarzan, Burroughs also created
John Carter, a Civil War veteran who, by means of astral projection,
journeys to the planet Mars - or Barsoom, as it is known by its
inhabitants - where he wins fame, power, and the love of the
incomparable Dejah Thoris, princess of the city-state of Helium. The
Barsoom novels were hugely influential in the development of both later
fantasy and science fiction. Gary Gygax famously sent a character from
his home campaign to Barsoom as a result of a cursed scroll and
Barsoomian monsters figure prominently in the game's earliest wilderness
encounter tables.
Robert E. Howard
REH barely needs an introduction. The creator of Conan the Cimmerian,
along with Kull of Atlantis, Solomon Kane and many more memorable
characters, Howard almost singlehandedly created the genre we now call
swords-and-sorcery. Contrary to the caricatures, Howard's best stories
deftly mix daring adventures with an almost existentialist philosophy.
His characters, including Conan, are not muscle-bound blockheads but
intelligent men whose dangerous endeavors offer surprising insight into
the human condition. Even so, Conan is out to make a name for himself in
the world and makes a great model for many D&D adventurers.
L. Sprague de Camp and Fletcher Pratt
Both L. Sprague de Camp and Fletcher Pratt had written fantasy and
science fiction stories separately, but it was their collaboration on
the Enchanter stories that most influenced D&D. These stories introduce
a psychologist named Harold Shea who, by means of an unusual system of
symbolic logic, is able to transport himself and his companions into
parallel worlds. These worlds all have different physics from our own,
including working magic, and usually bear a close resemblance to those
of mythology, such as Norse, Irish, Finnish, etc. -- just like many D&D
settings.
Fritz Leiber
In his youth, Fritz Leiber was a correspondent of H.P. Lovecraft and
many of his fantasy tales show a definite Lovecraftian influence.
Leiber's most famous creations are Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser, a pair of
roguish adventurers whose exploits in the City of the Black Toga,
Lankhmar, adeptly combined derring-do and naked self-interest. Fafhrd
and the Gray Mouser are thus prototypical D&D characters, willing to
undertake all manner of foolhardy tasks to keep themselves in wine,
women, and song. Interestingly, Leiber designed a boardgame based on his
Lankhmar tales, which TSR, the publisher of D&D, published in 1976.
While these five authors are the only ones mentioned by name in the 1974
edition of Dungeons & Dragons (along with Tolkien, whose name is
consistently misspelled as "Tolkein"), they're not the only ones whose
writings influenced the game. According to an appendix to his 1979
Dungeon Masters Guide, Gygax notes that the authors having "the most
immediate influence ... were probably de Camp & Pratt, REH, Fritz
Leiber, Jack Vance, HPL, and A. Merritt." Several of those names were
already mentioned in the original foreword to the game, but several are new.
image
Jack Vance
Of the many short stories and novels Jack Vance wrote, it was his 1950
collection The Dying Earth and its 1966 sequel The Eyes of the
Overworld, that had the most influence on D&D. Set in the impossibly far
future, when magic has returned and the sun is sputtering its last rays
of light, these books introduce a peculiar form of magic that depends on
imprinting spell formulae on the mind of a wizard, who immediately
"forgets" them after use - the very system D&D adopted. Indeed, D&D
borrows many spells and magical artifacts from these books and the
protagonist of The Eyes of the Overworld is, along with Leiber's Gray
Mouser, the prototype for the Thief character class, first added to the
game in its first supplement in 1975.
H.P. Lovecraft
Like his contemporary, Robert E. Howard, H.P. Lovecraft needs little
introduction. His "Cthulhu Mythos" and the cosmic horror it embodied
have proven enormously influential in the decades since his death in
1937. Lovecraft was unique in his time for combining a Gothic literary
sensibility with a philosophy that downplayed humanity's importance in
the universe. Though Lovecraft's worldview is in some ways antithetical
to that presented in D&D, many of the game's monsters are clearly
inspired by his stories, most notably the octopus-headed mind flayers
and the ichthyoid kuo-toa, which recall Cthulhu and the Deep Ones,
respectively.
Abraham Merritt
Largely forgotten today, Abraham Merritt was a giant of early fantasy
and science fiction. H.P. Lovecraft thought highly of his stories, as
did SF pioneers Jack Williamson and Walter Shaver. Merritt's works often
involve ancient but advanced races that dwell beneath the earth or in
inaccessible locations, whose horrific societies and cultures are
stumbled upon by people from the surface world - sounds like the set-up
for many D&D adventures, doesn't it?
Poul Anderson
Anderson was equally at home in fantasy and science fiction. His
historical fantasies, most especially Three Hearts and Three Lions, were
hugely influential on D&D. Its protagonist, Holger Carlsen, is the main
model for the game's Paladin character class. Likewise, D&D's
regenerating troll and fairy swanmays owe their origins to this book.
Even more significantly, Anderson's conception of an eternal struggle
between Law and Chaos inspired British author Michael Moorcock, whose
own stories of Elric of Melniboné would in turn inspire the earliest
versions of D&D's alignment system.
As you can see, no single author or novel is the sole source of
inspiration for Dungeons & Dragons. Instead, its origins are
multifarious, with many books providing the raw materials from which
Arneson and Gygax crafted the game that changed the world.
It's unfortunate that so many of these books and authors today are
largely unknown except to aficionados of early fantasy and science
fiction. It's my hope that, by bringing these authors to wider public
knowledge, more people might not only recognize the debt that the hobby
of roleplaying owes to their remarkable imaginations but also enjoy
their writings in their own right. Like D&D itself, whose influence
extends far beyond tabletop roleplaying games, these writers and their
ideas contributed much to contemporary popular culture and they deserve
their due.
James Maliszewski is a writer currently living in Toronto, Ontario,
Canada. His blog, Grognardia, explores the history and traditions of the
hobby of roleplaying.
--
Dan Clore
New book: _Weird Words: A Lovecraftian Lexicon_:
http://tinyurl.com/yd3bxkw
My collected fiction, _The Unspeakable and Others_:
(Wait for the new edition: http://hplmythos.com/ )
Lord Weÿrdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:
http://tinyurl.com/292yz9
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
"Tho-ag in Zhi-gyu slept seven Khorlo. Zodmanas
zhiba. All Nyug bosom. Konch-hog not; Thyan-Kam
not; Lha-Chohan not; Tenbrel Chugnyi not;
Dharmakaya ceased; Tgenchang not become; Barnang
and Ssa in Ngovonyidj; alone Tho-og Yinsin in
night of Sun-chan and Yong-grub (Parinishpanna),
&c., &c.,"
-- The Book of Dzyan.
== 2 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 20 2009 10:27 am
From: Quadibloc
On Nov 20, 9:47 am, Dan Clore <cl...@columbia-center.org> wrote:
> http://tinyurl.com/y9gf2naD
> The Books That Founded D&D
> by James Maliszewski
>
> Although it's commonplace nowadays to assume that J.R.R. Tolkien's The
> Lord of the Rings was the primary source of inspiration for Dave Arneson
> and Gary Gygax when they created the world's first tabletop roleplaying
> game, Dungeons & Dragons, a careful examination of the game suggests
> otherwise.
> Jack Vance
>
> Of the many short stories and novels Jack Vance wrote, it was his 1950
> collection The Dying Earth and its 1966 sequel The Eyes of the
> Overworld, that had the most influence on D&D. Set in the impossibly far
> future, when magic has returned and the sun is sputtering its last rays
> of light, these books introduce a peculiar form of magic that depends on
> imprinting spell formulae on the mind of a wizard, who immediately
> "forgets" them after use - the very system D&D adopted. Indeed, D&D
> borrows many spells and magical artifacts from these books and the
> protagonist of The Eyes of the Overworld is, along with Leiber's Gray
> Mouser, the prototype for the Thief character class, first added to the
> game in its first supplement in 1975.
Indeed, I remember reading in a book about different games that the
D&D magic system was based on Jack Vance's "The Dying Earth"... and
everyone else had used a much more sensible mana point system.
Oddly enough, the author of that book's second edition was Jon
Freeman, but the original hardcover edition (which also had a slightly
different title, the paperback being sponsored by a magazine) was
written by John Jackson (and bore the title "A Player's Guide to Table
Games").
John Savard
== 3 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 20 2009 12:43 pm
From: Dan Clore
The URL is:
--
Dan Clore
New book: _Weird Words: A Lovecraftian Lexicon_:
http://tinyurl.com/yd3bxkw
My collected fiction, _The Unspeakable and Others_:
(Wait for the new edition: http://hplmythos.com/ )
Lord Weÿrdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:
http://tinyurl.com/292yz9
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
Strange pleasures are known to him who flaunts the
immarcescible purple of poetry before the color-blind.
-- Clark Ashton Smith, "Epigrams and Apothegms"
== 4 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 20 2009 2:13 pm
From: Patok
Dan Clore wrote:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/y9gf2naD
> The Books That Founded D&D
> by James Maliszewski
>
[...]
>
> So, if The Lord of the Rings wasn't as influential in the creation of
> D&D as some would have it, then what were the most significant literary
> inspirations for the founding game of the hobby of roleplaying? Let's
> first take a look at the ones Gary Gygax specifically mentions in his
> foreword.
>
> Edgar Rice Burroughs
>
[...]
>
> Robert E. Howard
>
[...]
>
> L. Sprague de Camp and Fletcher Pratt
>
[...]
>
> Fritz Leiber
>
[...]
>
> Jack Vance
>
[...]
>
> H.P. Lovecraft
>
[...]
>
> Abraham Merritt
>
[...]
>
> Poul Anderson
>
[...]
>
> As you can see, no single author or novel is the sole source of
> inspiration for Dungeons & Dragons. Instead, its origins are
> multifarious, with many books providing the raw materials from which
> Arneson and Gygax crafted the game that changed the world.
>
> It's unfortunate that so many of these books and authors today are
> largely unknown except to aficionados of early fantasy and science
> fiction. It's my hope that, by bringing these authors to wider public
> knowledge, more people might not only recognize the debt that the hobby
> of roleplaying owes to their remarkable imaginations but also enjoy
> their writings in their own right. Like D&D itself, whose influence
> extends far beyond tabletop roleplaying games, these writers and their
> ideas contributed much to contemporary popular culture and they deserve
> their due.
This is quite interesting. It would be even better, if the author
suggested a way of approaching these "largely unknown" authors. Of them,
I didn't know only Fritz Leiber, but haven't read their works except
Poul Anderson's. And that's because I can't. I've tried reading about
Cthulhu several times, to no avail. And I've endured reading only one or
two pieces (at most) each by Burroughs, Howard, Vance and Merritt. Being
early (or classic) writers in the genre does not, unfortunately, mean
quality writing. Or a style I can stomach.
--
You'd be crazy to e-mail me with the crazy. But leave the div alone.
== 5 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 20 2009 10:14 pm
From: "Mike Schilling"
Patok wrote:
> This is quite interesting. It would be even better, if the
> author
> suggested a way of approaching these "largely unknown" authors. Of
> them, I didn't know only Fritz Leiber, but haven't read their works
> except Poul Anderson's. And that's because I can't. I've tried
> reading about Cthulhu several times, to no avail. And I've endured
> reading only one or two pieces (at most) each by Burroughs, Howard,
> Vance and Merritt. Being early (or classic) writers in the genre
> does not, unfortunately, mean quality writing. Or a style I can
> stomach.
One of these is very much unlike the others.
And Leiber is even more different, as his style is humorous,
unornamented, and very approachable.
== 6 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 20 2009 10:51 pm
From: "Endymion9"
I had never heard of Fritz Leiber of Fahryd and the Grey Mouser until I
began playing D&D and heard that those books were an influence. Immediately
went out and read the entire series and loved them. Always grateful to D&D
for that.
--
--
Dennis/Endy9
~Some will sink, but we will float. Grab your coat. Let's get out of here.
You're my witness, I'm your Mutineer.~ Warren Zevon
--
== 7 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 20 2009 11:03 pm
From: Patok
Endymion9 wrote:
> I had never heard of Fritz Leiber of Fahryd and the Grey Mouser until I
> began playing D&D and heard that those books were an influence.
> Immediately went out and read the entire series and loved them. Always
> grateful to D&D for that.
Thanks to you and Mike! Leiber was the only one I had never heard
of, and had not tried to read. I'll give him a try, now.
--
You'd be crazy to e-mail me with the crazy. But leave the div alone.
== 8 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 20 2009 11:47 pm
From: Juho Julkunen
In article <he74b1$kpu$1@news.eternal-september.org>, Patok
(crazy.div.patok@gmail.com) says...
> Dan Clore wrote:
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/y9gf2naD
> > The Books That Founded D&D
> > by James Maliszewski
> >
> [...]
> >
> > So, if The Lord of the Rings wasn't as influential in the creation of
> > D&D as some would have it, then what were the most significant literary
I'd just like to point out that 'some' there is everybody except Gygax.
Yes, D&D took influences from all over the place, notably form those
mentioned in the article, but in the case of LotR Gygax protesteth too
much.
--
Juho Julkunen
== 9 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 21 2009 12:02 am
From: DouhetSukd
On Nov 20, 10:27 am, Quadibloc <jsav...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Nov 20, 9:47 am, Dan Clore <cl...@columbia-center.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> >http://tinyurl.com/y9gf2naD
> > The Books That Founded D&D
> > by James Maliszewski
>
> > Although it's commonplace nowadays to assume that J.R.R. Tolkien's The
> > Lord of the Rings was the primary source of inspiration for Dave Arneson
> > and Gary Gygax when they created the world's first tabletop roleplaying
> > game, Dungeons & Dragons, a careful examination of the game suggests
> > otherwise.
> > Jack Vance
>
> > Of the many short stories and novels Jack Vance wrote, it was his 1950
> > collection The Dying Earth and its 1966 sequel The Eyes of the
> > Overworld, that had the most influence on D&D. Set in the impossibly far
> > future, when magic has returned and the sun is sputtering its last rays
> > of light, these books introduce a peculiar form of magic that depends on
> > imprinting spell formulae on the mind of a wizard, who immediately
> > "forgets" them after use - the very system D&D adopted. Indeed, D&D
> > borrows many spells and magical artifacts from these books and the
> > protagonist of The Eyes of the Overworld is, along with Leiber's Gray
> > Mouser, the prototype for the Thief character class, first added to the
> > game in its first supplement in 1975.
>
> Indeed, I remember reading in a book about different games that the
> D&D magic system was based on Jack Vance's "The Dying Earth"... and
> everyone else had used a much more sensible mana point system.
>
> Oddly enough, the author of that book's second edition was Jon
> Freeman, but the original hardcover edition (which also had a slightly
> different title, the paperback being sponsored by a magazine) was
> written by John Jackson (and bore the title "A Player's Guide to Table
> Games").
>
> John Savard
A careful reading of the spells D&D v 2.0 reveals a number of spells
originating from Cugel's Saga. The Spell of Forlorn Encystement comes
to mind (9th level, you end up in statis 50 miles underground), but
there are others. Been a long time, can't recall.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Seven Basic Plots
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.books/t/cbb217ac2d077860?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 20 2009 5:36 pm
From: "Francis A. Miniter"
Ed Cryer wrote:
>
> "Stratum101" <j.collier@cross-comp.com> wrote in message
> news:99c54da4-c22a-4480-81e8-a3bb1f7a74cf@k17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 18, 9:44 am, "Ed Cryer" <e...@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote:
>> "Immortalist" <reanimater_2...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:4d0e1d1c-ce3d-4b55-9d7b-98797684c587@f20g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
>> ...[Christopher] Booker believes we tell stories as a mechanism of
>> passing a model for life from generation to generation; that in
>> essence, all stories are archetypal family dramas, ).
>>
>> ************************************
>>
>> I find the great heroic stories morally bracing for my own living life.
>> They give me strength, hope, support. When audiences gathered round
>> Homer to listen to tales of brave Achilles, or around an Anglosaxon bard
>> singing of Beowulf, I suspect they felt the same.
>> You can add music as well; triumphal symphonies from Beethoven onwards.
>> And modern super heroes like Spiderman and Batman.
>> They work on the living, and sum up and endorse the higher aspirations
>> of the living. As such they are means of self-affirming in the present.
>>
>
> I find Beowulf part of the Western canon that every bright
> school kid should absorb. (No, make that every
> *curious* school kid. Prescribed literature is punishment
> for some kids.) But long, long after it was the
> subject of the skald's tale-telling, it had one brilliant
> offshoot. That is John Gardner's 1970s novel
> _Grendel_, a retelling of the tale from the ogre's
> perspective. It ends with his "disarming" encounter
> with Beowulf and his self-pitying run to Mama.
>
> Gardner's Grendel is the tale of a bully. It could
> be Hitler's 12-year tale as bully.
>
> In another hundred years no one but the well
> read historian will remember Hitler's ally Vidkun
> Quisling whose name became an eponym for
> "traitor". But they'll remember Hitler and if 24th
> century kids are reading Beowulf, I hope
> their teachers will know to tell them that
> for 20th century readers, Grendel was no
> mere abstraction.
>
> Of course between now and then, there
> could be some other Hitler or two to add
> to the heap.
>
> --
>
> _Grendel_ is one of my Desert Island
> books.
>
> **************
>
> I learned recently that Beowulf survives from one manuscript only. Which
> puts me in mind of ancient Greek tragedy, so little of which survives.
> Aeschylus - 7 from maybe 90.
> Sophocles - 7 from a known 123 written.
> Euripides - 18 from 90+
>
> I notice that no Greek tragedy is mentioned in Immortalist's lists. Now,
> that's something that needs explaining because they were very, very
> widely staged in the ancient world, and stayed in fashion for centuries.
> And they are prototypical retellings of myths, but not many happy endings!
>
> He includes mention of ancient comedy. Why not tragedy? Aristotle, for
> example, held Sophocles' King Oedipus as the greatest and quotes from it
> more than any other in his Poetics book.
>
> Ed
>
And there is nothing else I know of in literature to compare
to Aeschylus's Orestia for elucidation of the change from
private, ritual vengeance to a public sense of societal
justice, not to mention the sense of psychological guilt and
angst that Orestes experiences. Aeschylus's ability to
portray surreal psychological realities would make him fit
quite well into 20th century drama. It only took the world
2,400 years or so to catch up with him.
--
Francis A. Miniter
Oscuramente
libros, laminas, llaves
siguen mi suerte.
Jorge Luis Borges, La Cifra Haiku, 6
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 20 2009 10:01 pm
From: Shrikeback
On Nov 17, 6:08 pm, Immortalist <reanimater_2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> ...[Christopher] Booker believes we tell stories as a mechanism of
> passing a model for life from generation to generation; that in
> essence, all stories are archetypal family dramas, and that their core
> message is that we must resist selfish evil (Booker doesn't use this
> term, preferring 'ego-centred', according to his Jungian framework).
In my framework, there are only three plots:
1. Man vs. Woman,
2. Man vs. Nature,
3. Man vs. the Empire Brain Building.
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 20 2009 11:06 pm
From: Patok
Shrikeback wrote:
> On Nov 17, 6:08 pm, Immortalist <reanimater_2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> ...[Christopher] Booker believes we tell stories as a mechanism of
>> passing a model for life from generation to generation; that in
>> essence, all stories are archetypal family dramas, and that their core
>> message is that we must resist selfish evil (Booker doesn't use this
>> term, preferring 'ego-centred', according to his Jungian framework).
>
> In my framework, there are only three plots:
>
> 1. Man vs. Woman,
> 2. Man vs. Nature,
> 3. Man vs. the Empire Brain Building.
Heh. IMO, there is only one plot:
1. Woman.
--
You'd be crazy to e-mail me with the crazy. But leave the div alone.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Jalousie: A Thing of Purest Magnificence
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.books/t/af0c465e4afc566a?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 20 2009 7:52 pm
From: Just Me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xV0IcFyXUWs&feature=related
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 20 2009 8:14 pm
From: Just Me
On Nov 20, 9:52 pm, Just Me <jpd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xV0IcFyXUWs&feature=related
God! What glory! . . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FogmcygI3A&feature=related
--
JM http://bobbisoxsnatchers.blogspot.com
--
JM http://two-candles.blogspot.com/
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